Friday, November 30, 2007



Structures of frames and why they work… via el topo…

This is something we all talk about, and it is broken down many times; however it is hardly ever thorough.
I doubt my explanation will do what I seem to understand, but it is at least an attempt to try and give more credence to the theory of frames.

First off one thing needs to be made clear, social sciences are theoretical.
Proofs are far from our reach. There are so many variables it is hard to maintain an absolute. Many ideas that are packaged as absolutes are really no more than a pseudo science.
That being said, in order to truly give something your all, you have to believe in it.
I believe that use of frames can very much define a social interaction. But I also believe that there is more than just what I put into the conversation or situation that does the work.
That being said, there is enough diversity in my use of them that shows a consistent result, and there is enough consistency in what I do that shows a consistent result to put myself out there.

Sound good???
Well hopefully.

First off what is a frame.
For myself it was a word I heard first thrown around but I never heard a definition. Within the context of how people talked about it, I started to define it.
I then learned that it is used and may very well have had its birth in the development of NLP.
Who knows, but how I define it may be different for you, so here it is…

I believe a frame is, the boundaries of how a social situation is conducted.

It is what defines the social interaction. So for instance if a frame is to be a ‘teacher frame’ it does not merely bring up time and time again that ‘I am a teacher’ but it defines that I am the teacher.
This is something that is mistaken time and time again, in terms of sexual frames.
People think sexual framing is something in which you bring up sex and somehow that ‘frames’ it.
This is not the case; a sexual frame defines the interaction as sexual. And the more creative a person is they will frame the situation as how the roles they define are played out.

So there are lots of ways to establish frames. What I will talk about here is how I do it in terms of dialogue.

What I say is by far not the only way it is a way.

Also my use of frames has no hypnotic tone to it. I think the best way to integrate frames is to actually speak like you are having a real conversation and never trying to be a stage hypnotist.
Mainly I would say that most people are more than willing to accept the frames you give them, because they have accepted them before. You don’t need to ‘induce’ them using mystical hypnotic technique. Be normal in it. Talk like you would with a friend.

But first off I define the interaction by making the idea I am getting across possible.
So most of you probably want an example…
So something like this,
“One of the things about being human is you can have two parts to yourself, you have that part that tells you that you’re gonna do it, you’re gonna give it your all, everything is going to be in order. Then you have that other side where you just want to say fuck it, just let is land where it is gong to. The thing is we’re all human, we have all sorts of ways of doing everything, but we all do everything the same.”

So in this I am not putting much out there in terms of influencing someone. But I am putting something out there that almost anyone can relate with and agree to on pretty much every aspect of their life.

So I am starting with a belief. It is a pretty easy one. It is something like, we have two sides to us, and no matter how much we try and make one dominant the other one shows itself. This may have some truth to it, but essentially it is a cold read that more than anything takes advantage of our social and cultural voids that are trying to desperately relate with people than maintaining a healthy identity. But that is a topic for later.

But cold reads can be used creatively to elicit frames.

So once that is in place I have to root that idea to the way or ways I want to take it.
I believe that if you have a frame you really want to bring to full fury you should build up a couple of them and then have them gain momentum of each other.

So let’s say next I start to build one that after that can be related to the initial frame. It is one that gives an identity to the vague human aspect I pointed out before.

So I make that identity have to do with being manic depressive, and impulsive. So for example…

“It is funny because when you were talking back there it made me think about my friend Jamie. Not that I am saying this about you, but it just sort of popped into my mind. But the thing is that for the longest time…I have known him since he was growing up, he always acted so impulsively. Actually both of us would get involved with crazy stuff but he would take it too far. I mean you know what I am talking about, right? Like for me I was someone who was always so on the edge, but I always managed to never go off the wrong side. Or if I did, I didn’t stay there long, but you always have a friend, or someone you know, that just goes for it… all the way.
But you know what I actually envy that at times, I wish I had that sort of crazy flurry and when I do it usually brings out the best in me, if I don’t let it out of control.”

Ok, so this is now another cold read that pretty much everyone can relate with and within it they are actively deciding to fall on a certain side of things. That is all intentional. I really am being super vague and I am really being specifically general. Psychics do it all the time. But here I am laying the groundwork for a type of behavior for them to act upon.
Also if you haven’t guessed, the manic/impulsive behavior is one that I don’t recommend. But it is more to get an idea of how they interact, and how you should build your frames.

So next I give them and actual frame to fit into that is empowered by this above foundation.

“ One of the things I notice when talking to you, is that your eyes wonder, and you know what that means right?”

Here, again the vagueness in combination with the above foundation should bait them into qualify themselves to either defend themselves or accept and define what that means.
This is important, you want them to do only one of those two things or even both. If they ask, ‘what you mean by that’ then string them along. Get them to jump through that hoop. Make them decide which one they are.
Then thing with framing is that you need to have them decide and actively accept the frame to be placed on them. They need to own it. It is your job to define it.

So let’s say they say, they don’t know what you’re talking about, but they are a good person and their eyes shifting was just them worrying about a friend.

So you say to that,
“No big deal, I am not saying you’re crazy, Jesus chill… I am just saying I can see that side of you. Just for a second.”

Let’s say they say something like that you were right about them, that are impulsive because their eyes move around a lot and they are embarrassed.

Then you say,
“No big deal, I totally understand, I didn’t mean to make you blush. Your secret is safe with me.”

Either way the idea is tat you define and understand that part of them.
So now you need to define it more. Let’s say you want to make that manic/impulsive state have actions of a certain type. Let’s say you want to make it have a theft style of action. So you need to give it more of a definition. You need to integrate a story to have it find a new home.

So you say,

“You know when you’re a kid and you have these feelings of wanting something rally bad. Like when you’re older they still come up, but not like when you’re young. But when you’re young you feel it more because there is no social inhibition to feel the way you feel. Like feeling is natural, and boundaries to feelings aren’t.
But when I was a six, I was in the store with my mother and she said she wouldn’t buy me a twix bar, and I wanted a twix bar. And I knew it was wrong, but I took the twix bar. In fact I really didn’t think there was anything wrong with me taking it, but as soon as the clerk saw me and caught me I knew it was wrong. But it was just that social pressure which made me feel so bad.
Like you know what I mean right… I am not some compulsive thief here…but I am sure you can relate to that in some way?
But that wanting and taking of the twix bar really had nothing to do with him, or really my mother. I mean, I didn’t know then, but he probably got some shitty wage and whether or not I took the bar his job wasn’t going to be lost. But it is that part of society that I don’t get. I don’t think stealing is alright, but killing that child-like feeling is tragic.”

So that is quite a long story, but you can shorten it.
Then you want to define it al little more on a larger level. This can all be unnecessary, but one of the reasons I am putting it in there, is because the more you can make a person feel a frame the more they will be willing to feel it where you want them to feel it.

“Like sometimes, when I am feeling dull and that urge or that ambition that just needs to get out I do something totally crazy. Like you know what I mean, we get all caught up in life and we don’t want our dreams to die. We may not be able to live them now, but we still want to pump some life into them.
So I do something crazy, like the other day at this bar I was at this guy totally drunk, and we were all sitting down, it was one of those kind of places. Anyway he was talking and talking to this girl next to him, he had just ordered a drink and put it down. My drink was practically empty and a beer. His was some mixed drink. But as he was talking I just switched his out his drink with mine. You know just little playful things.
But when he went for his drink he was completely baffled as to what happened. I got up and moved before hand. Come on let’s move over there, I can’t stand in one place too long.”

Now you have attached the idea of being mischievous to a feeling, and then that feeling an action. That action builds compliance and it will get the frame to cycle.
The more you build frames and attach them to one another them more convincing and powerful they get.

That is all for now. Let me know if this helps

Now it is your job to show how you can use these ideas in terms of PU… but be creative, that is how we uncover new ground!


Piven said...

That's pretty powerful stuff, man. After reading it a couple times I can see how you can make your routines really tight with this in mind.

Shenanigan said...

ET I have to say this is some of your best stuff yet, I can really understand how using this can be a big advantage and really help in comfort..awesome stuff, keep it comin!

B#Sharp said...

I notice how you're relating these impulsive feelings to yourself in the stories you tell. Could you call these grounding stories? Is it necessary to "share in the conspiracy" with her when you're trying to set a frame up?
In my bar pull last week I would just say stuff to the girl like "You're a bad one.", "I can tell you're trouble.", "Were you just looking at my cock?". Is this sexual framing where I should also be using grounding material to let her know I'm in on the conspiracy with her?

Elixir said...


Elixir said...

This is great stuff. The only thing I
would focus on more as far as getting other people to apply frame setting is focusing more on the nonverbal sub-communications within the frame. In my mind, the strength of the frame is determined the most by the nonverbal sub-communications that are being done. The emotion conveyed is really what moves the person. This is why learning game online sucks. You should do a podcast or something. So we can hear the tonality.