Sunday, December 2, 2007

Austin/Rant/Frames

So I have gotten some emails about frames and stack info. Actually like quite a few.

Just to check in I am in Austin again and am amazed at the community out here.
Lots of dedicated guys. Really impressive.
And in actuality I will be out there quite bit in the next few months.
I would like to do another lair talk there as well.
The funny thing is that when I do lair talks people generally find them beneficial.

In fact those of you in Boston and SoCal, I will be speaking there shortly.
Boston Dec 16th (thanks Doc Holiday)
SoCal Dec 18th (thanks Sexual Chocolate)

But what is funny to me is in Dallas the fine Lair people there would not grace us with their support to do a talk (thanks Dallas Mojo). The odd thing is that at the talk, yes we are there to show what out company has to offer, but in reality there is about 15 mins of that and an Hour and 45mins of working personally with the people attending.
And better yet when we asked about it to speak it wasn't just me, it was Sinn, Captain Jack and Me. And FOR FREE!
That is almost like a disservice to your community of PUAs to play into the bullshit PUA politics. It sucks that PUAs that have actual experience in the Game like Asian Playboy, Sinn, Captain Jack, Shaft, and the rest of em aren't yet seen fit to the high standards to the Mojo.

But how's that for a rant.

In any case, pretty much everywhere I go I end up meeting some of the greatest people!
There are friends from all over that I have connected with and stayed in contact with that make me love what I do.

But now that I got that out of my system I would liek to get a bit more into the ideas of using frames in terms of pick up.

As in my previous post, I mentioned that I am by all means no authority on framing, and I think that there are far too many people who claim to be. I also would like to say that I have the belief that I don't have THEE definitive system on framing, nor do I think that having that mentality is a good one, considering there is still so much to be learned from game.

But the structure I use is one that is set up like
Establish frame, Empower with Cold Read and then qualify them to it.

I was on the phone with Priest the other day and he was asking about his stack that i had put together for him.
If you don't know Priest then I wonder if you are in the PUA community. But if you are ever in his town, he has an awesome couch to crash on!
But he asked me about this idea, and I told him, 'it is in your tack man!'
And he said I know, but can you go over the structure a bit for me so that I can figure out how to apply it in other stories I integrate into my stack. (that is one of the really cool things about the stack is that you basically get this really thorough stack with tons of explanations in it and you have the model for adding and augmenting it. It really is a tool for the long term.

In any case I gave him an example like this...

"You know how psychics use clod reading techniques to get people to lower their guard a bit. Well you are kind of doing the same thing. So working a force frame is a cold read, but it is a weak one if left alone. So if you are in conversation with a girl and you say,
'You know just form talking to you right now, I can tell you're a really... kind of are a wild one at heart.'
That is great but only takes a step forward if you sell it a bit more with a more elaborate cold read like,
'But like check it out, I can actually tell just because when I was growing up my best friend was actually a girl down the street who reminds me of you. Her name was Jill. Now I am the last person to generalize, but you know what I mean, when you meet people and you just have, like a feeling about it right away. And with you, I can tell that is it like those... insecurities that you keep from the people you meet that never let that side you out in the open.'
So right there what I have done is shot out a bunch of cold reads, mixed in with some grounding and other little highlights that allows the subject to attach something to, and not only empowered a frame, but also laid a few more that should be good to build compliance.
And then make them qualify themselves to it...
'So what is like the craziest thing you've done?'
And so there you have done a frame, mixed with a cold read to give it some momentum, and then made her qualify herself to it."

One of the most powerful things frame-wise you can do is to build multiple frames in a set, have them represent different sides to her, then bring them together. But if you can play them off of her just right then you can get her to actually defend the frame you put on her.
And actually have her decide that she wants to fight to carry that frame's identity pver the other frames which actually are empowering it.
I know it sounds confusing, but take a look at how psychics and stage magicians all the way to politicians work.
I think one of the things never brought up in terms of pick up,
is oue absolute need to embrace a belief. That is our human weakness.
The larger our population gets and the more superficial we live, the more we need to believe in things we can't explain. Them more we need to be lead, and what leads is the belief.

any questions or comments, I would love to hear...
el.topo.el@gmail.com

6 comments:

Priest said...

Topo said, "It sucks that PUAs that have actual experience in the Game like Asian Playboy, Sinn, Captain Jack, Shaft, and the rest of em aren't yet seen fit to the high standards to the Mojo."

LOL...

I am the last guy to get caught up Community Politics but... how do I put this nicely... Mojo - you are doing your Lair a HUGE disservice if that is the case!

If ever there was a layer that needed a good stern talking to its Dallas!

--------------

Thanks for theREDstack brother! Like I'm super fuckin excited about it... I'm still working the bugs out of my delivery so it will be clunky for a little while but I like what I see, and I can damn sure recognize the potential power it has...

For those of you guys wondering how the fuck CJ Sinn and Topo just walk up and seem to have a normal conversation, then leave with the girl... theREDstack is how they are able to do this.

I will post a full review once I have had consistent results from using the script - but for those interested in "what do I say in set?" theREDstack is exactly what you say... an entire movie script of FRAME + COLD READ + QUALIFY = SEX

---------------

The shitty part about frames is that they are so hard to define and even harder for newer guys to recognize once in set. For more advanced guys, we can pick them out but what to do with them or how to tactically use them to our advantage in set is another hurdle. That's why your last two posts have been extremely valuable both the new comer and to the intermediate student.

Topo said, "One of the most powerful things frame-wise you can do is to build multiple frames in a set, have them represent different sides to her, then bring them together."

I would LOVE to see more posts about how to bring them all together... But we can talk about that later. Stack first, then more advanced shit.

Topo said, "But if you can play them off of her just right then you can get her to actually defend the frame you put on her.
And actually have her decide that she wants to fight to carry that frame's identity pver the other frames which actually are empowering it."

In the end, Seduction (among other things in life) is a frame game. Any further posts further elaborating the above comments or Frames in general, will really help guys out.

Thanks again for all your help buddy.

Deuces

-Priest-

P.S. Thanks for having a blog that serves as such a valuable source of information/application

Maysin said...

This stuff is GOLD!!! Thanks ET for all of this!

theultimateman said...

Thanks El so much for this post. You made my day. I always had tough with qualifying. I used to randomly jump into "What are you passionate about?". Some people didn't knew why I was asking that. Some people were able to understand that I was a passionate about life and hence I was asking them. I din't get consistent results as it wasn't smooth.

Grounding of the question with cold read was such a key. One simple question...does the cold read need to be sold with a story. Can you elaborate the relevance of connecting with "reminds me of"....

I can't thank you enough for this golden nugget....

Shenanigan said...

ET,
I read and printed out your post the other day on frames, and this pretty much ties up the loose ends for me. I do have one question tho on what priest said about establishing the different frames and bringing them all together..if you could elaborate on that, that would be awesome! Thanx man, this stuff is awesome, can't tell you how much it has been a help, keep it up, you da man!

Mojo said...

Hi guys, Mojo here.

Here is the story how things happened…

I did receive the following message to “whom it may concern” though they never asked me directly.

======
To whom it may concern:

Although I am not a member of Dallas Pua, I am a Mystery Method Instructor, and sarge out of DFW.
As you may know, Sinn has moved to the DFW area making it a very flavorful spot to be right now.
The 3 of us wanted to start meeting everybody in the local lairs.
So if you would know how to set that up, we'd love to hear from you.

Thanks

et
======

They did not want to acknowledge me so they used “to whom it may concern”. I do not like to play games. So instead of replying I asked Vector to send my contact information to Captain Jack, El Topo was copied, with the message that I was open to talking about having them here. I received no response. I could never understand why they insisted on these games.

A few weeks later we sent another message inviting Sin to speak. No response.

Some “Gurus” do not like this lair cause they are not able to easily exploit the members to sell their high dollar workshops; that is the reason, not politics. Remember, I asked them three times to the table yet they did not respond. Are they playing politics?

El Topo, I hope you forgo you preconceived notions of me. I hope one day that we may sit down, chill, and have a drink as friends.

~ Mojo


P.S. I had asked Twitchy a few months ago to ask Captain Jack and Sin to talk about speaking to the guys. And…. *drumb roll* no response.

Let’s stop this bullshit. El Topo, lets go out and let me buy you a beer :)

The Asian Playboy said...

Lair politics is BS.

Some city lairs, and I've operated and spoken for free for at cities where there were THREE lairs, are simply not conducive to the FREE dissemination of expertise and concentrate more on the building of "political powerbase."